broken

Part 2, the same way for us in the Garden. God, if He truly loves us as the bible says, had to give us free will and the option and ability to sin otherwise, His love wouldn't have been complete. If there was no chance for sin, or there was no free will, then we would have just lived in the Garden loving God like robots programmed to do so. But He loved us so much that He gave us free will, knowing that we can fall, in order to love us. Because there is no sense in love if there is no choice.

Tue, 17 Apr 2012 17:44:42 -0700

What I’m questioning is not the reason for the existence of sin, but God’s right to judge us because of it. Because it WAS possible for God to not create sin… He is ultimately responsible for its existence. (He’s responsible for the existence of everything) So do we really deserve to burn in the flames of hell for eternity if God made us that way?

The Christian answer is yes we do because we don’t deserve to be in the presence of God because he is perfect and sinless and we are broken and sinful. But the irony of it all is… God created the sin and made us broken.

And yes, I understand that evil and sin are just the absence of God’s love and all, and I get that without some sin in the world you can’t have good qualities like bravery, humility, and generosity. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be sin. I’m saying that maybe God shouldn’t be as harsh and judgmental as he is. He may be loving and all, but it’s a little hard to focus on the fact that he allows all his good little Christian children into heaven when at the same time he’s condemning all of his other children to an eternity of suffering… Like honestly, at the very least he could have made hell slightly less painful. Or put a time limit on it.

BUT all of the above is pretty much irrelevent because God does allow sinners into heaven. He just only allows the ones who worship him in. Because you know, it would just be a horrible crime to be gracious to those who thought they were doing the right thing but ended up screwing up. Because you know math teachers are horrible and automatically fail kids as soon as they get a problem wrong when they thought they were doing right.. no matter how close they got.

Even people who think they’re worshipping the real God but who are actually worshipping a similar God with a different name by no fault of their own.. they aren’t allowed. I mean even Allah is a little more loving. According to Muslim tradition, he lets all “people of the book” (Christians & Jews) into heaven.

I have a lot to think about for one day! Thank you to everyone who responded to my questions!

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:24:28 -0700

I’ll update you guys eventually with my thoughts. I have a busy week ahead of me so it might be a couple days.

God bless!!

How do i get my back to my faith? lately i have to stop going to church reading my favorite Christian blogs, listen to christian music that i just keep drifting away from my faith. How can i stop this?

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:14:22 -0700

I had a pastor once who told me that inside of us there is a black dog and a white dog fighting. Feed the white dog and it will start to win, feed the black dog and it will start to win.

You need to feed your white dog. Listen to that Christian music, and find a church which really clicks with you. Maybe you need to make more time in your busy life for God, and set aside an hour a day to just read the Bible. Maybe you need to seek out people in your life who are adamantly for God and can help you get deeper with your faith.

I would recommend buying a daily devotional book and really digging into your faith everyday for at least 20 min. The more time you spend feeding that white dog, the stronger it will get.

Why does God give some people advantages over others? (For example some people are born into...

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:11:24 -0700

Why does God give some people advantages over others? (For example some people are born into Christian homes and some people are not)

Is it fair for God to do that? Is that just? Thoughts?

How can something be rejected but still normal? I would disagree with you that Christianity is "socially normal". I think the Christianity that is accepted by our culture is a fake Christianity. Real Christians aren't usually accepted as much. But that's probably another whole conversation haha :) I really like your question about culture and how the Bible/Jesus interacts with it, and am actually interested in doing my own research also. I'll be sure to let you know what I find :)

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:02:28 -0700

Well, for example, vegetarians do not eat meat. They reject meat. However, they do not scream or cry or look at meat-eaters with contempt, hatred, or disgust. They see eating meat as something that is normal and socially acceptable. It might not be acceptable to them personal, but in general, it is neither unheard of, nor unusual.

In the same way, atheists are not surprised to hear that there are many Christians in western societies. It’s normal because Christianity has always played a role in western society. Whether your talking about something as important as the reformation and how it has impacted our culture, or as trivial as a biblical reference in a Lady GaGa music video, Christianity is common where other religions are not.

tallented replied to your post: What do you mean, “the wrong God” ? He had to create hell...

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:58:28 -0700

tallented replied to your post: What do you mean, “the wrong God” ? He had to create hell because of Satan, and people end up there because either they rejected God or didn’t know any better. A big chance always comes for people to obtain salvation. It’s always there, every minute of every hour of each day. People can choose not to go to hell, that’s why Jesus died on the cross so we could be saved

He created humans (He didn’t create evil, evil is just the absence of God, like darkness is just the absence of light) and everything all for His glory! Even through those who don’t go to Heaven, He is glorified and always will be. :)

Oh ya! That’s another interesting concept! If evil is the just absence of God, then didn’t sin exist before the fall? Adam and Eve were human, and humans lack God-ness, so surely they were sinful when they were created. If that were so, then sin is inherent in creation. In which case, humans can’t be blamed for the fall, and therefore, there is no need for redemption.

That is the problem, everyone lives in different truths. People digagree on what is "right" and what is "wrong". Thats why I think we have the bible, to tell us the truth. People can't decide that because no matter what it's going to be biased. We can't see the whole picture like God can. That's my opinion, what do you think? I don't really understand your grey world theory.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:50:12 -0700

You’re right, but the Bible already fits into the whole “truth” thing. Because the Bible was written by Christians. Just as the Qu’ran was written by Mulsims. Each holy text is considered “truth” in its own religion. So again, you’re back to the question of “How do I know real truth?” And the answer in every single culture is apparently “just believe what you’ve always believed.” And so people in Christian families stay Christian and people in Muslim families stay Muslim etc.

What do you mean, "the wrong God" ? He had to create hell because of Satan, and people end up there because either they rejected God or didn't know any better. A big chance always comes for people to obtain salvation. It's always there, every minute of every hour of each day. People can choose not to go to hell, that's why Jesus died on the cross so we could be saved

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:46:42 -0700

He didn’t have to create anything. He didn’t even have to create Satan. But he did. And he created humanity, for the purpose of worshipping him for an eternity? I’m guessing?

I’m still not exactly sure why God created humans. I’m willing to leave that aside though because it’s not as important. Whatever reason he had for creating us, if he has created us, then we do have an obligation to acknowledge him. Whether that acknowledgement should take the form of worship or not, I don’t know. That’s a very interesting question. What defines worship? What deserves worship? Do you deserve to be worshipped for creating something? (Oh no… slipping back to the creation, fall, redemption model.. haha)

There are exceptions to both cases. Many Americans don't accept Christ, and many Asians do accept Him. In fact, wouldn't you say that our culture is rejecting REAL Christianity more each day? Not rejecting God, but rejecting most everything else. Perhaps God and the Bible have risen above culture, but men still reject it? It is in our sin nature to do just that.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:41:40 -0700

Of course there are exceptions, but as a general rule, people born into Christian families don’t convert to Islam and vice versa. Same with any religion.

Sure, our modern society rejects Christianity. But Christianity is still socially normal. It wouldn’t be odd to find a large Christian population in America. It would be odd to find a large Hindu population in America though…

gail-alexandra replied to your post: My mom told me this when I raised all these… Hun, I took...

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:39:36 -0700

gail-alexandra replied to your post: My mom told me this when I raised all these…

Hun, I took sociology, anthropology, and world religions, your saying there are so many different people and different individual experiences but that does’t go against the idea that there can be one clear truth.

Sigh. Yes, there is absolute truth. If I didn’t believe that, I wouldn’t be able to have this discussion.

My question: Can God judge people for having the wrong version of the truth if they were born with a disadvantage- their culture does not view real truth as normal or socially normal.

My mom told me this when I raised all these questions about hell and the bible and equal opportunity and how it didn't seem fair that good people still went to hell and how I didn't like how the Christian faith worked. She said, "Well no one likes the truth, that doesn't mean it isn't true though." Totally made me re-think everything. I hope it does for you too.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:30:35 -0700

This is all wonderfully said until applied to real-life situations and then it becomes horribly, horribly messy. Hypothetical discussions of salvation and theology only go so far because they are in black & white terms. Our world is grey.

Your view of truth is different from mine. No matter how much we try, we will never view the same truth because we live different lives and see from different perspectives. Apply that concept to 7 billion + people in this world and things get complicated. Everybody is saying exactly the same thing as you- they all say their truth is better than everyone else’s. Clearly this is impossible, so some people must have the real truth. But is it fair if the people who have the real truth were born into a culture which already views the real truth as real truth?

I agree that culture plays a MAJOR MAJOR role. There's no getting around that. But that's not an excuse for not believing, just as Muslim wouldn't let us off the hook for not believing because we live in a different culture. They're still hearing it, even through a culturally biased lens. If I may ask, why do you think the Word and God don't transcend culture?

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:23:59 -0700

Why do I think the Word and God don’t transcend culture?

Because I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Christianity in Asia is foreign and strange. It’s a seldom thought about concept which is weird to most Chinese people. (Almost as how you might think of Buddhism).

If Christianity could truly rise above culture, then why hasn’t it? Why does Asia still see Jesus as foreign and unusual. I would argue it’s for the same reason we still see buddhism as odd. Because the society we have grown up in has forced us to view it through a lens of Westernized thinking. It’s no fault of ours that we see Christianity as normal and Buddhism as odd. That’s just the outcome of what culture we were born into. We could just as well be Chinese people discussing cultural identity and its affect on various asian traditions right now.

markschmoyer replied to your post: Part 2 haha :) God is the same way. He doesn’t allow anybody to...

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:11:43 -0700

markschmoyer replied to your post: Part 2 haha :) God is the same way. He doesn’t allow anybody to go their entire life without hearing the truth of the Gospel. If He did, that would be unfair and cruel. But in some way or another, He does.

But doesn’t Jesus and the Bible transcend culture so that even a Muslin who is taught to hate Jesus still believes? If He truly is the Son of God and He has all power, then shouldn’t His Word and His gospel be unaffected by culture?

You’re right. It should. But it doesn’t. And that is the reason for my questioning. As it turns out, Muslims are witnessed to all over the world today, but very few convert.

Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism are known as the three major world religions as they all have something in common. They are universal. EVERYONE is invited to join. Doesn’t matter what race or culture you are from. You are invited. And yet for some reason Christianity is predominantly western, Islam is predominantly middle-eastern, and Buddhism is predominantly Eastern. Interesting how the religions never really spread outside their cultural borders isn’t it? (Hint-cultural identity…)

you're right. how can God condemn all these people to hell who were born and raised in a different religion? but wouldn't you agree that when you get to a certain age you have the ability to discover and study other religions and you can choose what you believe? they can be raised one religion, but i feel that as humans it is our own responsibility to study religion and decide what we believe.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:09:01 -0700

And would you not agree that how a person is raised defines in some way every thought and action they take for the rest of their life? It certainly has for my parents, and the parents of my friends. In fact most people I know think the way they think because of either the way their parents think it, or how society thinks. Society. Defines. Identity.

Part 2 haha :) God is the same way. He doesn't allow anybody to go their entire life without hearing the truth of the Gospel. If He did, that would be unfair and cruel. But in some way or another, He does.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:05:31 -0700

Aha. You just said the cop-out answer.

He doesn’t allow anybody to go their entire life without hearing the truth of the Gospel.

But does he really? Has a Muslim really heard the gospel if somebody tells it to them? No. Because The culture he/she has grown up in completely rejects Christianity. He/she has been taught to hate Jesus since he/she was born, and so there can never be any acceptance of the gospel. No matter how much is heard. The cultural identity of that person has defined his/her beliefs.

Think about this personally. If a Buddhist came up to you and told you all about Buddhism, would you convert? Of course not! It’s ridiculous to even think you would because you’re strong in your faith! In the same way, it’s ridiculous to think a Muslim could just suddenly convert to Christianity after hearing the gospel.

Yes, the gospel may be heard by everyone, but cultural identity has made it impossible for it to be heard with the same perspective.

Copy pasted from my original post:

DECEMBER | So God knit everyone in the world in the womb, right? He knew who they would be before they were born, right?

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.” -Jeremiah 1:5

After living in China and travelling a good chunk of the world, if there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that culture defines identity. I am who I am because I was born in a white Christian family. Muslims are who they are because they were born into Muslim families.

I’m pretty damn sure that if a Muslim came up to you (unless you’re a Muslim reading this) you would not convert, no matter how much they extolled the virtues of Islam. In the same way, no Muslim is ever going to convert to Christianity no matter how much you try to sell them on the love of Jesus Christ. Yes, many people do change religions, but the majority of them are atheist or agnostic and have no original foundation of religion to work with.

So how could a loving God condemn all these Muslims to hell if all they’re doing is doing their best to get closer to the God they believe is real?

the answer to all of your questions is, faith; just have faith.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:59:43 -0700

Yup. That about sums it up haha.

But really, if you cut to the core of my problem, that’s what I’m struggling with. Faith has somehow turned into blind acceptance for me. And I can’t deal with that.

In order for me to have faith in Jesus, I need to have a basic question answered, and that is the question of experience- the idea of cultural identity and how it affects one’s beliefs. Other doubts, I could question within the faith, but this one question I cannot. It must be answered before I can continue on any kind of path within Christianity.

markschmoyer replied to your post: Not to add to the dull of all the other people messaging you,...

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:51:18 -0700

markschmoyer replied to your post: Not to add to the dull of all the other people messaging you, but I would just like to say that the questions you bring up are questions that should be asked more, because there are answers to them. God is a selfish God because He created us, so He owns us. He created hell because He is a just God, He can’t tolerate sin. If He didn’t create hell, where is the justice for those who hurt Him and His people on earth? I’m not trying to convert you back, haha, just offer some ideas. God be with you!

That’s a great analogy, never thought of it like that before. But if you think about it, God gives us our whole lives to turn to Him, and if we reject Him (willingly or not) the consequence is hell. God doesn’t give up on us, otherwise we would all be in hell. instead, it is us that give up on God. I’d love to see where you go from here and feel free to ask me questions anytime. I don’t have all the answers but I’ll gladly offer thoughts :)

Well some of us do give up on God. But some of us are born in places that don’t believe in the same God as the Christian God. How can they be blamed for a misinformed view of religion? Will God allow them into heaven for doing all they could to serve the God they truly believed was real?

I just realized I’m asking a whole lot of questions haha. Sorry! But thank you so much for the feedback!

It has to come from within us though, doesn't it? Salvation is offered for free, and it's a person's choice to make if he/she'd receive it or ignore it. We are given a choice. Every day salvation is there, just waiting. God doesn't want people to go to hell

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:48:40 -0700

I guess my question is, didn’t God create this whole system of heaven and hell?

Imagine the beginning of everything, when God decided how the universe would work. He chose to create a heaven and a hell. He chose to create angels, and he chose to create satan. He chose to create humanity. Why? Why did he set it up that way?

Why did he make it so that humans could spend their entire lives yearning to be closer to God, only to die and discover the God they were searching for was the wrong God, and they were just unfortunate enough to be born into a culture that doesn’t see God exactly the same as the Christian God?

Your perspective is interesting me. It's very like God, you don't really know what you're doing. This is how I would do things, they make more sense to me and I can understand them therefore +1 for me 0 for you. Jesus is God saying he is not giving up.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:45:32 -0700

I’m really confused. My perspective is very like God? But I don’t know what I’m doing? Isn’t that sort of… contradictory?

Haha I’m really sorry! I don’t completely understand what you’re saying.

But God doesn't give up. He will find other ways to reach you whenever you're lost, no matter how hard or how long it takes, because God loves His children. I swear it! I have experienced it. God be with you.

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:40:15 -0700

God gives up on unbelievers after they die and go to hell. According to the bible, they never get another chance. Not for an eternity. God just lets them suffer forever.